CIA The World Factbook

YI: So in about three years time, the money will start pouring in. Meanwhile, Timor has been receiving foreign aid in its rebuilding efforts. Some critics have said that there is a danger of overdependence on development assistance.

Gusmao: It is a question that we put to ourselves when we defend our rights, we claim our rights, with Australia. We would not like to be dependent on aid all the time, and if we can have our own resources we can also be part of the international community. We tell them that we are in a difficult position, we face difficult challenges, so it is a moral obligation to continue to assist us. I believe that the aids are important to prevent situations like (in Africa). In political aspects, we try to strengthen democracy, the question of human rights, justice. We expect to have income from the Timor Sea. We know is a dilemma of continuing to ask for help.

YI: How are relations with your neighboring country, Indonesia? What will be the focus of this relationship in the future?

Gusmao: We are trying to agree, in principle, that further relations to be strengthened should be more direct, to be more business oriented, economic cooperation, (not only) government to government, but also through the private sector. This will be more effective. We know well Indonesia, we know that the eastern part of Indonesia is also worse neglected than us. Now we can be a part of this sub region, have a common policy of development, in infrastructure, in agriculture, in health, in everything that we can, create an environment of real friendship, based on cooperation, based on mutual respect, and an environment of peace.

YI: You see a special kind of development zone with eastern Indonesia, because of the common, perhaps, geographical, climatic conditions?

Gusmao: Yes, and if we work together, we will face all the threats that the world today faces, drug trafficking, traffic in weapons, everything. We can make a zone of peace, of cooperation, of security, everything to help to build a new world.

YI: What about relations with ASEAN, and with Asian giants like Japan, China and India?

Gusmao: We are in the process of asking for membership in ASEAN. Of course, it will take time, we are not rushing not because we don't want to, but because we don't have money, and we know that ASEAN has two hundred meetings a year that we cannot afford. But we are always invited to be observers in ASEAN meetings. We have very good relations with Japan. Japan has been one of the biggest donors so far. We also have a very good relationship with China and Korea. We would like to have more ties with India. We defend the idea of the reform of the UN, with India, Japan, Indonesia, Brazil, Germany, to be permanent members of the Security Council.

YI: You spent more than half of your life fighting a war for independence, you now lead your country in peacetime, fighting a different kind of war, a struggle against poverty and all its consequences, what are the different strategies that you're now following?

Gusmao: The basic difference is that in war, everybody accepts sacrifice. In peacetime, it is more rights. The strategies are that we put the goals in the long-term perspective, that we continue to ask each other to be patient. I have to say that without the people of Timor Leste, maybe the successful case of Timor Leste would not be a reality, we owe them their understanding, their spirit of sacrifice. In war the strategy is how to win the enemy, now there are so many different enemies: the problem of health, of children going to school, of people living in bad conditions, jobs, democracy, the problem of institutions, so different and so complicated, now than before, it is a huge difference.

YI: How do you convince your people that it's a war that needs to be won?

Gusmao: We talk. When there are difficult or sensitive issues, making people feel unstable, we call for national dialogue, and we begin from the sub district to the district, to national level. We argue, with the government officials, with the parliamentarians and we discuss, we may not get any conclusion, but at least we communicate. It is a very difficult process that must take time, and nobody should forget that we started from zero, from a vacuum in everything. We go to the districts, and we talk to the people, they put their problems, come to Dili, raise the question with the government, raise the question with the parliament, and interaction between the grassroots and the political parties, to continue to ask for their rights, but in a way that we show tolerance, we show respect, we show awareness of the situation.